What would RTH do?

That is the question.

If I were in a highschool yearbook, they would vote me most likely to die of a lynch mob. That does not prevent me from opening my mouth and serving a warm hearty cup of STFU to people who deserve it. My dark scathing humor will leave no matter of existence untouched. My innocence will touch your soul.

Welcome to a warped world turned inside out and upside down. All sorts of discretion advised.

Thursday, December 1, 2011

r_t_h - Mother fucking Sick Bitch

Turns out the crusade against me is not over a silly joke. It was about something clearly different and did not even realize was offensive.Anyone who knows me well knows that I sure do crack a lot of politically incorrect jokes and can be meanly sarcastic However, the one thing that I will never do is actually genuinely disparage or disrespect a religion or belief system. Since I am a questioning skeptic some of my thought processes and questions maybe offensive to some conservative and traditional thinkers, but most mature and rational people give me a chance to explain myself. They may not agree with what I say, but usually people end up seeing where I come from and what my point of view is.


The title of this post is thanks to some brilliant mature minds who thought that it would be a lovely gesture to spatter these words in my honor all over a public forum. I'm honored to be famous.

Here is the offending post:
A different age and time is no excuse or justification for pedophilia, but it is an explanation for other things.

Due to high mortality rates, especially during childbirth and the need to keep having men to protect and sustain the community ' ancient society condoned a lot of things we find horrifying today. Girls were married as children and would consummate marriage as soon as they reached sexual maturity. The notion of consent did not exist.

Based on that it is likely that Mohammed married Ayesha when she was a little girl and consummated the marriage as soon as she had her first menses (it can be anything from 9-17). In his time it was a responsible thing to do as a husband and not rape. HOWEVER, if we have any sense of ethics and social responsibility, we have to accept the fact that this practice was inhumane and in all sense was socially approved rape. There is no possible way she could have given 'sound mind' consent or psychologically/emotionally understood the relationship.

I try to put myself in the shoes of a Muslim and try to think what would I do if the founder of my religion committed statutory rape (it is very difficult)
-          One option is to assume she was at least 15 or so when the consummation occurred. Even if there is no factual proof, it at least reflects a rejection and disgust with the notion of statutory rape.
-          Another option is to assume the founder is a flawed human and not a perfect human. He may have been a good man who brought about a lot of positive changes, but clearly he was seriously flawed and did not understand statutory rape. Maybe he was not a divine messenger, but a human for no divine messenger would lack such compassion
-          My personal favorite which I follow anyways is that religion is a social and cultural construct of time. As society evolves we are responsible to distill out the negatives and try to evolve our faith into something more socially responsible. Every religion has these difficult questions and murky pasts, you can choose to ignore or justify it, but the responsible thing is acknowledge it and make a commitment that the future will be better.

Of course I'm not a Muslim so I don't understand the religion as well, but that is how I would perceive it. You don't have to reject faith entirely, just the negative aspects of it.

Edit: I see Empti mentions that the Quran permits sex with a wife even before maturity. I'm not familiar with that, but from an anthropological standpoint for reproductive purposes the line was usually maturity. They usually had concubines for pleasure purposes. I'm making that assumption. 
Some responses to the offensive post
you people dont know anything but to bash Islam!
inshallah ull be facing Allah's wrath, Inshallah!
people like YOU bring in those terrorists and show as though theyre muslims, when theyre actually YOUR people, think about a million times before bullshitting about Muslims from now, Please!
 & b/w when you don't knw anything then plz shut urz mouth 
A person who worships  STONE and several GODS at a time...A person who worships someone who is the  man made fake character , who is filled with  all  kinds of flaws whose life is filled with mistakes and sins ...ARE here to teach us about our Prophet and Islam

Clearly, highly educated, sophisticated individuals who knew that verbal missiles are much better than asking me to clarify or give me a chance to apologize or re-explain myself. Anyway, I drafted a response for some people whom I have unintentionally offended in order to apologize and restate my views. The thread is locked for now, but posting it here just in case. I plan to post this if and when I get a chance.
For almost two days, I did not know what I had done wrong. I could not figure if it was my silly joke or something else more serious. I had a slew of people threatening me that I had been reported, but I was clueless as to what. No one quoted the offending post and stated why they thought it crossed the line. I even asked what had been done wrong so I could rectify it, but no one cared to answer. How can someone be expected to understand what is wrong, rectify any mistakes, if they are not told what went wrong in the first place. If only one single person had cared enough to take the time and tell me what I did wrong, I would have edited, apologized and explained myself. Perhaps the whole argument and mess of locking the thread could have been averted.

I eventually had to PM a DT member to find out what exactly I was being accused off.  My offending post is the first post on page 26 of this thread. I never was even aware of it at the time, but I am the first person to introduce the terms 'rape' and 'pedophilia' in the thread. I never in my wildest dreams would have thought it would have offended someone so much because it was meant to be an explanatory post, not an accusatory post. The entire intent of the post has totally been misunderstood. Now that I am aware of it, I want a chance to correct the mistake.

First and foremost I apologize for not being more sensitive in my verbiage and my assumption that both sides would get what I was trying to say. It was never my intent to mock Islam, Prophet Mohammad or actually accuse Prophet Mohammad of rape and pedophilia. That was the very last thing I had on my mind. So I hope people will try to put aside the bad blood and let me explain why I posted it and what I meant.

My entire intent was to try and put myself into the shoes of a Muslim and how might one reconcile our modern sensibilities with some serious allegations and concerns others raise with the past of Islam.

Statutory rape is intercourse with someone below age of consent. Unlike other rape cases, the relations in this situation is often consensual with both parties expressing happiness about it. It is rape not because someone was forced or abused. It simply means that one or both persons was below the age of consent. Although age of consent varies by nation to nation, it is a line we draw to protect adolescents who are not mature enough to give consent, adolescents are at risk of psychological and other damage, by engaging in physical relations before the right age. These laws mean a lot to family and communities in modern times because it gives us comfort that children are legally protected and there are systems in place to protect children who maybe damaged and hurt. It also brings sanctity to modern relationships by emphasizing the need for consent.

Of course these laws did not exist years ago. Humans did not even know what age of consent was. Most people probably did not even know why this was wrong. In fact marriage and marital relations was something honored and approved by society, irrespective of age or consent. Most people actually thought they were doing something right and good, not shockingly wrong. It is not just Arab culture, but across the globe you have instances of society approving child marriages and marital relations. Perhaps if I was born in that era, even I would not think like I am now and truly believe that my twelve year old daughter must be ever so content and happy to have relations with her 50+ husband and be thanking gods for her true happiness.

I'm also a firm believer that the society of the past cannot be judged by the mechanisms of modern society. The question however is not about judging the past but asking ourselves – Was that right and can we accept it? Are such mentions OK in religious texts? Since religion is supposed to be the guiding pillar of morality and right conduct – I personally find it very tricky and difficult to reconcile such notions of the past seamlessly into modern day doctrine. Somewhere, somehow there has to be a disclaimer that this is morally wrong and now that we know better we call it statutory rape.

So my intent was not to call Prophet Mohammad a rapist or pedophile. I'm not familiar with Islamic texts, nor am I going to bring up various Islamic texts to prove whether it was statutory rape or not. It was different back then. My question is more on the grounds that it is very plausible that based on our moral beliefs of today, Prophet Mohammad may have been deemed guilty of statutory rape. Since he is such a prominent, respected and revered figure in Islam how do we reconcile his history being prominent in the religion while still holding true to the morals of marriage and consent we have today. It is a difficult and painful question, I understand and empathize. I am sorry if the thought of such a question offends people. But the question exists, and deserves thought. We should not ignore the difficult questions and sweep it under the rug. Only when we tackle such questions and try to find answers does religion grow. Trust me, such a conundrum is not unique to Islam alone. Every single belief system that exists today has such difficult question and there barely is a single human out there who has not grappled to reconcile modern values with ancient religious texts and beliefs.

In the offending I tried to put myself in the shoes of a Muslim and figure how I might respond to such questions. Since, I was not raised Muslim and these beliefs are not near and dear to me, the response may have seemed cold and offensive. But it was not meant to be that way, and I hope that Muslims can be open to answering these questions in a mature manner. After all this is Debate Mansion – a place to find these answers. The real world is far harsher in the questions it poses not just to Muslims but every minority. In the real world, they actually will intentionally offend you and tear you down. What will we do then?

I wanted to close with some questions regarding the topic question – Is Islam a religion of peace or war. I believe all religions are intrinsically good. The real question is are we as humans people of peace or of war?

Most of you who came here and reported me, don't even know me. You don't even post in this section You have barely interacted with me. You don't know my history on DM. You don't know what I have posted in the past. You have no idea what my values, what my beliefs are and what stances I take. You saw one post and immediately drew conclusions and made assumptions about what my intent was. Not a single person drew pause to think that maybe it was a misunderstanding. Not a single person drew pause to think maybe we should respond first and see what the person has to say. Not a single person drew pause to think that maybe there is an amicable solution we can come to.

Everyone just saw that it was about religion, about Prophet Mohammad and unanimously decided – nothing doing – we will get this person. Not just that, but to the extent that you actually planned and conspired to come en masse bringing everyone in your circle, and literally bully me and the Dev team until some action was taken. You had decided that I deserved consequences for my words, and there was no going back. The entire fiasco was almost an act of virtual warfare.  Is this really the public face you want to give your religion, no questions, no answers, no discussions, no explanations, no second chances, no attempts for mutual understanding – just thick hard lines draw out where you deem fit.

Again this isn't against any particular group, but something in general everyone who wants to engage in debate should consider. Are we engaging in debate or are we engaging in war? Are we people of civility or mob mentality? Are we going to act as people of peace or people of war? And that is something only each individual can answer to themselves.





1 comment:

Anonymous said...

Hello there:)

I think your second post pretty much sums up some of the questions that arise from the first, Yes in today's day and age in a society we live in like in India or the US, it would be looked upon with great disgust that a man in his 50's marries a girl who is 9, but it IS considered legitimate in Islam, provided the husband and wife are practicing Muslims and follow the teachings of Islam with respect to marriage.

Do check these links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SfUKGp4iMg

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/why_did_prophet_muhammed_marry_aisha_at_a_young_age__is_that_morally_right__what_about_paedophilia___by_dan_1988


Religion in general is very much needed, Islam for a Muslim is a way of life, you cannot separate religion and other matters of life, I think a person always looks for guidance, be it anything like a direction to choose a career etc, the Holy Quran and the life of the Prophet PBUH, serves as guide for a Muslim to live his life on this earth, of course Allah gives us a choice to choose this path.

I would suggest you do try to buy a copy of the Holy Quran with an English translation from a good source, and read it with an open mind and in an unbiased manner.

Additional reading:
http://www.godallah.com/index.php